CONVERSATION 5

Spencer: this is how i see myself - when I’m angry I don’t feel lovable. when you’re angry I don’t feel loved.And this is how i see you - when you’re angry, I’m lovable. when I’m angry I’m lovable.

Raisa: so you don’t believe that last thing?

Spencer: no, I don’t believe I’m lovable because I’m the top bit.

Raisa: does it mean that you are being your dad, the one that used to beat you? does you being angry mean that you are being that dad?

Spencer: yeah

Raisa: but do you see how you could love yourself in it?

Spencer: not yet. When I see you in your anger I don’t understand it, I ask myself: where’s the compassion?! That’s my default. That's what i would look for as the kid. I keep asking: who are you? I call you a cold bitch. So that’s the place I could start loving myself in. And in the provocation that I receive, I've got to stop it, I've got to stop being provoked because my conditioning is that I know I can’t win. Because when I was a child I was never strong enough. But now when I get provoked I know that I’m physically strong enough and that’s even scarier. Like I could hurt.

Raisa: so I say: go ahead! I give you the permission. i want your anger.

Spencer: yeah, but in a way you’re saying that you want responsibility.

Raisa: so therefore you are not going ahead with it at all?

Spencer: yeah.

Raisa: I want you to see the distinction – the responsibility to the messiness. Then I can say yes, I can hold your messiness, as long as you see the difference. But my concern is: can you be with your own messiness and with my anger. Because your mess will trigger my anger.

Spencer: yes, I actually feel that you’re anger empowers me. it makes me more angry. when we’re in this dynamic I can see that you’re very much at home in your anger even though sometimes you’re not owning it. You’re so at home that I can’t work out that it’s anger. I feel disempowered in it. So when I say: I don’t want to fight, I actually do, because I want to get back the power that I’ve lost.

Raisa: that feels good! ‘give me my power back, let’s fight!

Spencer: not only do I feel messy, but I feel stupid

Raisa: in the wanting to fight?

Spencer: no, before that. I feel defeated. Like, you’ve won. But even though I’m defeated, I’ll fight. Like... I’m stuck. I want to get to that place where you are, but I just don’t know how to get there.

Raisa: what feels good is... for you... instead of complaining, saying: ’you want to fight.’ Turn it into ‘I want to fight!’

Spencer: when I accuse you, when I say: where’s the compassion?!? That’s really me fighting to get my power back, that’s me being sneaky to do it.

Raisa: yesss! that feels good. This will shift something.

Spencer: if I remember them.

Raisa: I think you should take some time to be with that. can you forgive your dad and accept his anger, can you accept the dad within you?